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Ephemeral

@thestrangest said in Do you think ISLAM is a religion of terrorism ?:

it is the biggest reason of the issues. I do not understand how you have come to the conclusion that it isn't. Of course it is not the only reason but aslong as there are a big number of muslims which ARE not scripturally ignorent of their religion then they are going to be causing BIG problems.

as this ignores geopolitical climate.

No matter the geopolitical climate that doesn't change what I'm saying. Even in the most secular, democratic countries research shows that a lot of muslims still would prefer to live under shariah law which supporys the death penalty for homosexuality, apostas, cheating along with other bad things.

But here are the real questions, 1) are these Muslims first generation immigrants, because if they are, then you can hardly blame them for maintaining the conservative viewpoints they've had since their time in the Middle East, given their limited exposure to this new secular democratic environment. 2) To what extent are they willing to qualify Sharia Law, meaning do they have to take 100% of the Quran literally or are they willing to adopt and change bits and pieces, AND to take this question further, can you even generalize responses to this question? What if one person supports the death penalty for homosexuality but not for cheating, and another vice versa? Because if they don't all agree on the same view, then it's not really fair to lump them all as one group with a similar viewpoint, it's like how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.

https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/738852/British-Muslims-Sharia-Law-enforced-UK-Islam-poll/amp

"The report found that 26 per cent of Muslims did not believe in extremism and 48 per cent would not turn to the police if someone close to them became involved with people linked to Syrian terrorism."

To qualify, "a majority of Muslims polled said they would attempt to personally intervene rather than contact police if someone they knew was getting involved with people who support terrorism in Syria." Which is basically saying if your buddy Bob who you've known since 5 years of age wanted to blow up a train station, would you take it seriously and call the police on him as though he were a stranger?

Here's another statistic from the poll: Notably, the poll also found little support for terrorism, with 85 percent saying they condemn those who take part in suicide attacks, and 73 percent saying they opposed how the Islamic State was trying to create a caliphate (just 3 percent said they supported it). They're not deliberately trying to foster terrorism, if anything it's more an issue of mentality and education, I'm pretty sure they don't teach in school "what to do if your best friend Bob decides to become a terrorist". It's not exactly as simple as 1+1.

"Forty-three per cent of followers of the religion living in the country believed that parts of the Islamic legal system should replace British law while only 22 per cent opposed the idea.."

Again first I would ask what aspects of the legal system and whether or not they fully understand the implications. I mean, I wouldn't trust someone who isn't an expert in Sharia Law and the British Legal system to give advice on anything legislative just as I wouldn't trust a car mechanic to perform open heart surgery. If these are again Muslim first generation immigrants, their exposure to Britain would be extremely limited and they'd likely be isolated and even ostracized given the political environment, so how would they know better?

https://www.google.fr/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/%3Famp=1

"World Muslims who want Sharia

Basically the straight forward answer is 69.7% (call it 70%) of the world’s Muslims want Sharia Law. That is a shocking 70% of about 1.8 billion people, which is 1.26 billion Muslims, 16.8% of the world’s population of 7.5 billion."

Tried Cntrl+F'ing this 69.7% statistic but couldn't find it, this infographic is all I could find which is hardly a solid representation of the world:
alt text

Again assuming this "worst" case scenario, I would ask for further qualification of whether they 1) understand Sharia Law, 2) want 100% adoption, and 3) if not 100% adoption, which aspects.

It's like saying global warming isn't happening because it snowed the other day."

I see 0 correlation. You really suck at explaining things. Until now i have not understood your train of thought on anything you are saying.

Let me break it down to a level that even an Elementary School student could understand. When you blame religion as the sole cause of all terrorism, internal strife, etc, you're ignoring fundamental issues at hand. These include but are not limited to the economic downfall of the Middle East, the shifting paradigms of the younger generation, and the intervention of bigger players like the U.S. and Russia in the form of NATO (for control over the region and oil/trade). These issues play an equally significant factor as religion does to spurring terrorism, but because the masses typically don't have enough education or care to even learn about how all these factors come into play, they usually just hone in on a simple idea like religion and use that to justify all their actions. Religion is used as a tool to create a sense of identity and empowerment for action, which for terrorism is a backlash against westernization.

I'm not a fan of wikipedia but it provides a good overview:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_aspects_of_Islam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_politics

I'm using global warming as an example because ignoring geopolitical climate is like saying because it snowed, global warming isn't happening. You're ignoring the bigger picture that global temperatures (other factors) are also at play based off this one factor (which is religion in terrorism's case). If you didn't understand it's not important.

ADDITIONALLY, considering that these polls conducted by media are typically heavily biased, I would be cautious when extrapolating the results to the rest of the Muslim population. You can read more about criticisms for this poll specific in the source I posted below, some key criticisms include:

The Post's Clement suggests that the only reason for focusing on an area with a heavy Muslim presence would be financial cost. "It’s cheaper to interview a sizable sample of Muslims in areas where they are concentrated," he says. That could be a problem, however. Muslims make up only about 4 percent of Britain's population and tend to be spread out rather than concentrated in small areas. Critics have argued that ICM may have been limiting its view of British Muslims to those who live in Muslim-heavy areas — areas that may be unrepresentative both ethnically and socioeconomically.
Martin Boon of ICM Research has confirmed that the survey used geographic units of about 1,500 people where at least 20 percent of the population was Muslim. Boon says that 51.4 percent of Britain's Muslims live in these areas. Although that coverage rate is higher than some critics had extrapolated, it is far from enough to dispel all doubts — many general-population telephone surveys have coverage rates well over 90 percent, because nearly the entire population has a land line or mobile phone. The limited sample range of the ICM survey presents significant problems. Muslims who live in areas with large Muslim communities may well have different views on assimilation and religion from those who do not. ICM’s data cannot tell us either way, as these people never had a chance of being contacted.

Which further dampens the effect of the fact that they're living in a secular nation because this poll is only cherry picking Muslims who probably have limited interaction with the rest of the non-Muslim community.

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/12/a-poll-claimed-to-reveal-what-british-muslims-really-think-critics-say-it-failed/?utm_term=.9011581f7668

If you look at it historically, Christianity has led to a lot of deaths as well

Hum. Bullshit. Where are the sources of what you're saying here

Specifically the bubble with the Christian Crusades (1-3 million deaths):

Source: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/08/the-death-toll-comparison-breakdown.html

Dude. Of course stuff will get better if you solve the geographical climate but you'll still have problems with islan as demonstrated by the polls i showed from the UK unless you really, really in force religious moderation by secular progress, values and scriptural ignorance.
In islam the scriptures and history are clearly violent but there is hope in moderating muslims. It is not that complicated

The Crusades ended in 1300, ignoring all the deaths caused from the Conquest of the Americas and Manifest Destiny in the name of God, give it another 700 years (today 2018 - 1300 ~= 700), I'm sure Islam will be tame by then. But by then we'll be blaming some other religion or social factor for some kind of conflict, and I'm sure our posterity will be making the same bloody arguments.

kancha cheena

no no i don't think so i am indian but all are not alike

TheStrangest

@i-am-male said in Do you think ISLAM is a religion of terrorism ?:

@thestrangest I'm not denying that there could be some merit to that

That meens that you disagree with most of what i said. "I do not deny that some of what you said might be true"="I disagree with most of what you said" but you are pretty good at human communication because it seems you know how to say stuff without getting the other person angry or relying on his emotions rather than his reason to argue.

what I'm against is the fact that given the damage is already done, there's probably a better approach than simply blaming it all on a belief system.

It clearly is not just because of belief systems. I never said that it was

The inherent problems are typically not actually rooted in religion itself

Ugh. Religion is a big part of the problem

religion is just a means to justify taking action on behalf of the problems.

In most cases it orders the actions in its scriptures. That's different

I'll just repeat this until you get it. Religion moderation is a result of secular progress and scriptural ignorance. "Scriptural ignorance" is an important partvof that sentence

Hence why conservatives in the U.S. defend religion as a package deal even though it hinders scientific and technological advancement

True enough

it's a political strategy to maintain power via common identity; the world is slowly starting to move away from strict adherence to religious texts and beliefs, making it difficult to even compare "religion" since one's beliefs are largely biased from an individual's point of view.

I wonder where this is heading

On that note, it's challenging to compare the world to the U.S. and then claim Islam is the root of all problems

it is the biggest reason of the issues. I do not understand how you have come to the conclusion that it isn't. Of course it is not the only reason but aslong as there are a big number of muslims which ARE not scripturally ignorent of their religion then they are going to be causing BIG problems.

as this ignores geopolitical climate.

No matter the geopolitical climate that doesn't change what I'm saying. Even in the most secular, democratic countries research shows that a lot of muslims still would prefer to live under shariah law which supporys the death penalty for homosexuality, apostas, cheating along with other bad things.

https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/738852/British-Muslims-Sharia-Law-enforced-UK-Islam-poll/amp

"The report found that 26 per cent of Muslims did not believe in extremism and 48 per cent would not turn to the police if someone close to them became involved with people linked to Syrian terrorism."

"Forty-three per cent of followers of the religion living in the country believed that parts of the Islamic legal system should replace British law while only 22 per cent opposed the idea.."

https://www.google.fr/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/%3Famp=1

"World Muslims who want Sharia

Basically the straight forward answer is 69.7% (call it 70%) of the world’s Muslims want Sharia Law. That is a shocking 70% of about 1.8 billion people, which is 1.26 billion Muslims, 16.8% of the world’s population of 7.5 billion."

It's like saying global warming isn't happening because it snowed the other day."

I see 0 correlation. You really suck at explaining things. Until now i have not understood your train of thought on anything you are saying.

If you look at it historically, Christianity has led to a lot of deaths as well

Hum. Bullshit. Where are the sources of what you're saying here

it's just currently given the socioeconomic conditions of the Middle East and the shitshow that led up to it has made the region more prone to violence

Dude i agree but the geographical climate doesn't matter in the argument I'm making which is "All religions are bad and full of bad ideas but Islam is the most violent(and the motherload of bad ideas)"

and Islam, being their primary faith, is a useful tool for spurring on conflict (by shitshow I mean: modernizing faith/Arab springs, big oil and invasion of Iraq, Kuwait, list goes on starting from WWII).

Sure dude but that doesn't change the fact that if the primary faith was jainism or if there was no primary faith then the level of violence would definitely be a lot lower because guess what? Islamic teachings are naturally violent. Why is this so hard to get

Also, the media polarizing the issue to set the political agenda does not really help. It's great for the ratings though I bet.

Lol ok

I would first resolve the tense geopolitical climate in the Middle East and other Islamic countries, and then if people are still batshit crazy about blowing themselves up, blame religion.

Dude. Of course stuff will get better if you solve the geographical climate but you'll still have problems with islan as demonstrated by the polls i showed from the UK unless you really, really in force religious moderation by secular progress, values and scriptural ignorance.
In islam the scriptures and history are clearly violent but there is hope in moderating muslims. It is not that complicated

mark1

The short answer is 'no' because of course Islam is much more than that (so the question is a bit simplistic) But the problem for Islam is it is hard to get away from its roots. Mohammad was a warrior, and the Islamic faith was initially spread by territorial conquests. It has also tended to spawn theocracies (where God/Allah is the ruler over everything...ie Sharia law...which by default means a dictatorship...because unfortunately God doesn't speak on cue). So terrorists live in the extreme end of Islam and find their justification in their founder. Of course we know that there are millions of peace loving muslims.

We also know that Christians have been guilty of conquests in the name of religion too. (Although the crusades ordered by the pope were aimed at stopping the advance of muslim conquerors across Europe, and so i think justified just on self-defence alone). But on the other hand we know that the Catholic church of the Middle Ages was despotic and a monster. But along came Martin Luther in the 1500s and said... we have to 'reform'. 'We have to go back to our roots and live as Jesus lived'. And the church threw out a lot of stuff and went back to basics. Islam has a problem with doing that... if it reforms, it still goes back to its roots... which included expansion by conquest. So it is much harder for Islam to get away from the territorial nature of its roots, and so terrorists will continue to find justification and energy in the same place.

corrupt man

Well @muslim that's a serious question you asked in a not soo "good place" ...

But I think I am the right person to answer this question . (why you ask - because 7 of my friends belongs to islam religion and two of them died when i was just 9 years old because of riots.. )

If you want to know what happend keep on reading..

(When i was 7-9 years old) -
So when i was little my father who was in army used to take me and my brother to his best friend's house ( I don't remeber uncle's name but we used to call him mohmmad uncle) . the thing is mohmmad uncle was single that is his wife died even before i was born and he raised his only son by himself and since mohmmad uncle loved his wife so much he didn't even thought of remarrying .
Now on such a day it was holiday i remember correctly .. me and my big bro we were playing in mohmmad uncle garden and a car stopped by house it was a goverment officer car and a officer came out and rush to my father and mohmmad uncle and so in curiosty i followed him too and then the officer said something to my dad and uncle (in very low voice) and after a few seconds mohmmad uncle fall to the ground and it was like for me ... time stopped for a second and i didn't know what happend .. My big brother rushed and my dad picked up uncle and the officer called ambulance and turned out it was a heart attack.. And mohmmad uncle died .. i didn't know much what exactly happend but later as i grow up my dad told me what happend on that day when mohmmad uncle died or rather he told me how he actually he died ... What i think that it was not a heart attack it was murder so what happend is ..( it was my birthday we had a big party and then my dad asked me what i want to become in future so i told him that i want to join indian army and protect my people and my country) ... When my dad hear that he was shocked or frozed for a moment it's like he was seeing some incident from his past and when he came to sense he take me to roof and told me the story about watan mohmmad the son of mohmmad uncle and he told me how watan exactly died and you know what i literally cried that day super hard ... So what happend exactly .....
Story of watan an indian muslim army men
Watan mohmmand was son of mohmmand uncle and he joined indian army ... First thing is this the word "watan" is an indian name which means or signifies "nation" so that name has a irony in itself... Now back to main part watan joined indian army and he was transferred to jammu & kashmir border and on such a day after several weeks of joinning on a day he saved around 50 life by rescuing the villagers in that area from being attacked by terrorists....

but the unfortunate thing is on his way back to home i.e fron jammu & kashmir border to his home that is in jammu he was kidnapped and was killed by terrorist and the condition in which his body was found is bad ( the condition was soo bad .. My father told me that he was about to vomit even though being an army man ... Watan fingers was cutted down and his eyes were taken out and much more that you probably don't wanna imagine ..) and as his father(mohmmad uncle) was told that his son died his father died of heart attack... The bad part is when watan was on his way back home he was not wearing any uniform so there is no way anyone could knew he was a army man and also the people who killed him was of his own religion that is watan belongs to islam and the prople who killed him also belongs to islam ....

Now.....
Where watan signifies love for his nation and his peoples aka PEACE and those who killed him signifies evil ....

And also

There is a father who belongs to islam and who loved his wife soo much that he did not even thought about remarrying even in being in his 30's and raised his son with a proud name of watan and raised him to be a army officer..
An islamic father who's best friend was indian and they both were true friends ,
And a young man Watan mohmmad who saved almost 50 peoples from being attacked and died for his nation India being a Proud indian muslim ...........

And there are people of islam who killed him

So if you read the whole part i just want to say religion doesn't matter what matter is upbringing

Thats all folks

Corrupt man

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Girl let's be friends only chatting.indian. aunty

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